The radiator functions as an airflow straightener so the push/pull of 2 fans does increase the single fan pressure rating so they overcome the resistance of radiator better which results is an increase in airflow, especially at lower rpm. The Kukri fans even have an RPM advantage here. 1600RPM Push/Pull vs 1850RPM Push) we might see a wash in terms of performance. If when it is all done will your radiators line up with the old valves. Adding insult to injury one is PWM and the other is not. Different fans are going to have different RPMs, different airflow/pressure, and not really ideal to use in push-pull. People say because of their thickness it must have push/pull to be effective. Perhaps we will even see a super slim design to give the benefits of push/pull in tighter spaces. For this article we had used Martin’s radiator testing numbers (W/10DT) for push radiators to compare with our same (W/10DT) numbers. I am using pull only on alpha cool monster 360 rads. I am not convinced push/pull is really any good anyway. I will definitely follow what you have suggested and for the time being I will take the push fan out of the equation for now till I get the exact model as the pull fan. How to use our radiator outlet cover plate . So I’m I good with the header connections I have mentioned in my orig post? […] Push/Pull Radiator Setups or “How I learned to stop worrying and love that more fans = less no… […]. All rights reserved. But, at the end of the day, I don't think a push/pull would make much difference especially if the radiator and coolant inside are reaching thermal capacity. By the time 750RPM is reached it would appear that so far at least here Push/Pull does always outperform Push: Clearly manufacturers believe that the majority of users only use one set of fans. Radiator felt is used to direct the air from the fan through the radiator fins rather than around the radiator itself - i.e. Note there are differences in the setup. Interestingly if we look at percentage of performance for each of those three radiators data points we see that Push is between 84 and 88% of the performance of Push/Pull. As we are reviewing *performance* then we test with *performance* in mind. It will be able to draw most of the heat out of the radiator, minimizing overheating. Place radiator inside the chassis, then I placed 2 fans (push config) on the front i.e. Raise the vehicle. The updated info looks much better. Help on Push and Pull Radiator Fan setup and Case fan setup, Display posts from previous: All postsLast dayLast 7 daysLast 2 weeksLast monthLast 3 months6 MonthsLast year, Sort by AuthorPost time You want to push these three tabs down into these three holes. To use a PWM fan with PWM control you hold the voltage at 100% and send a PWM signal to vary the speed; you, Thanks for the advice. Let’s finally compare low speed fans – 750RPM Push/Pull vs 600RPM Push: Yes it is noisier – twice as many fans means that noise will increase by about a square root of 2 i.e. This means that the Coolgate G2 that was our overall winner becomes an astonishing 115mm thick. the path of least resistance. But of course if you have less clearance than 80mm then the thickest radiator you can ever consider is 80mm-25mm = 55mm. 2021 Ford F-150 Lariat 502A - <$95/Week Lease, even hotter. I did it like this because I wanted to install 2 more fans on radiator in pull config too. This difference is small and if we were to compare the at a fixed noise level (i.e. Pull that out. What i would recommend is attaching the bottom fans first, pushing through the top with long screws. And that even if you have to go down in radiator thickness until you can fit p/p. Pull back the air hose and push the back end of the air box down in first. The Magicool G2 Slim costs $50. Push/pull doesn't remove the center or corner dead zones which account for a large surface area of the radiator. 3dB. Help on Push and Pull Radiator Fan setup and Case fan setup So I have setup this build , but am running in a dilemma on how to go about connecting the fans. i would make sure you have enough room to do a push/pull setup. Go ahead and get it out. This feature lets you determine how good a deal you are getting on toilet paper purchases. Go ahead and remove those as well. [Ford] Again, thank you for your help. Just gonna pull the radiator up a little bit, slide it out. Time to continue the story about radiators for liquid cooling. It also has the benefit of a hinged flap that provides an airtight seal. If you believe otherwise please let me know. Installing this fan is very easy and require no modification. As soon as you are using only one set of fans you’ve decided to give up on performance. This is because as we’ve seen that “performance” and “one set of fans” are really mutually exclusive. My apologies on the no pictures, this should at least give a solid outline of what you need to do to release the radiator to pull it out. At 1300rpm the difference is smaller though: In other words ANY radiator with push/pull fans is significantly better than ANY radiator with push only fans at similar RPM. So, if you want optimal overall temps, you should give your radiator fresh air. Agreed – The Titans at 2100RPM are about equivalent to 1850RPM AP15s if you look at CFM through a rad – link here: https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2012/04/28/r9-fan-testing-gentle-typhoon-ap-29/, To be honest I think the bigger difference is in the general testbench setup itself. – Push/Pull is quieter for the same performance, – Push/Pull performs better for the same fan speed, – Push/Pull can perform just as well in the same total space (in tight spaces though you will still be limited to push only), – Push/Pull can (but not always) perform better for less $$$. Push on those two tabs. That way they're always working together. Which will just cover the bottom of the width of my Origin Genesis PC Case. Gonna disconnect this little cover that goes over the fitting for the transmission cooler line. We’ll see what happens. The holes in the case don't match up with the top holes in the top fan. Dominic Moass December 28, 2016 Cooling, Featured Tech Reviews When I built my first PC a few years back, I … Increases static pressure, handy if you are using slim fans with a thick dense high performance radiator. So that rules out any of our radiators in the review classed as “thick” anyway. Well, It's super quiet using noctura NF-P12 fans. For the top fan, I could only use 2 screws through the bottom holes. This Electric radiator measures 2.5 Inch thick and has 12 Inch in diameter. The only exception to this of course is if you were already buying a cheap radiator for a “push” setup! Yes more fans = more money. Thanks again, [Little Burgundy] It seems to me that I … Push/pull all the way. A handy solution when using 10mm Hep 2 O pipe is to utilise the HX113 Hep2O Radiator Outlet Cover Plate. The numbers are relative performance compared to the best radiator. I believe that the results of the setup that I will be using will be just fine. So far with data from only three radiators we can see that the difference is nowhere near as drastic as we previously thought and so we are correcting this article based on the new information. This feature lets you quickly set up alerts based on keywords you specify. Just use a T25, remove that screw. It’ll just be two push tabs—just push down on them and pull the grille out. We have covered the basics about radiators in the Part 1 blog, and in Part 2 we even showed some charts. But you would not want to push the piping down as that could invite problems with water hammer. This is despite us specifically having award categories for low speed fans and for slim radiators. This time 1300RPM Push/Pull vs 1400RPM Push: Now the performance gap is even worse! Now they do make a special tool to release these clips. That means you can save money by buying the cheapest radiator possible. [1:15] There’s gonna be a push pin here, as well as right here. We did not test at exactly the same fan speeds or with the same fan. Before we delve into other reasons and factors to consider we must first focus on performance. If you have to pull up the pipes, not always possible, to reconnect then that will work. This is contrary to our earlier claims which were based on poorly correlating data. Pull Out the Fenders. I will mount the radiator at the front and use Noctua 3000 RPM fans to push air through the radiator and NZXT 2000 RPM fans to pull air into PC. Never compensate for anything when it comes to your build……shoot I got a bigger case so that I didn’t have to worry about space. Let us then set out to make a case for why this should be changed. A Guide To Installing A Radiator. cost or space. The aim of this article is to educate people and hopefully as a result we get better performing radiators optimized for push/pull in the future. Then, it's held in right here. Fitted in conjunction with a back box, this cover plate provides a neat, easy-to-install method of connecting radiators. ... Continue to pull up on the radiator to lift it out .Installation is the reverse of the removal procedure. My question now is: Would it make sense to move them in front of the bracket and then install two additional fans on the radiator, so that it has a push/pull configuration with 4 120mm fans? Radiator Felt Installation When I removed the grille of my CJ2A for painting, I noticed that it was time to replace the felt. Unless you also present data that supports the two type of fans being very similar concerning noise, airflow and static pressure. Push or pull makes no difference for the radiator. If you don’t use the same type of fans Push vs. PushPull you are comparing apples and oranges. two 120 mm extract fans at the top. Hey, I have got NZXT Kraken X73 for my new i9-10900K build; I have also ordered additional 3 Noctua NF-F12 iPPC 3000 PWM fans to do Push/Pull with the radiator. Free Two Day Azure Fundamentals Workshop. Not only are there not statistics on what users really do but if that were the case the manufacturer could easily educate people on this (particularly those that offer fans for sale too). Join the conversation with thousands of savvy shoppers in Canada’s largest online forum. No one has statistics on the exact amount of course, but let’s assume this is true. For the fenders, we’ll kind of pick them up and out. We hope to help you decide what kind of setup is right for you and to show the benefits of each. Using radiator as intake on the other hand hardly effects GPU temps in game. Like I mentioned in my prior two posts, I want to thank you for this extensive and extremely detailed review (and even this update). 1 have all 4 mounting screws through the bottom fan and into the screw holes in the radiator. Therefore we have to back away from our earlier strong claims. Stress testign for 45 mins on a overclock 16 core thread ripper with prime95 sees 64c temp on the cpu. Part 2 clarified things about radiator performance, how radiator performance is expressed and how do we read radiator performance charts. Key Features Yes Push/Pull is better in performance than Push, but not necessarily when considering noise or price. Because we were able to extract W/10DeltaT numbers from fast_fate’s testing that meant we could compare results with Martin’s excellent Radiator round up from a few years back. The phanteks evolv case has an intake region at the bottom of the case and exhaust region at the top the case. This is definitely an updated version to SkinneeLabs.com’s rad reviews and Martinliquidlab’s review on radiators (found here: https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/category/radiators/). two 120 mm radiator cooling fans at the front which are also the only inlet fans (these are currently "pull" but could be changed to "push/pull" with two more fans.. one 140 mm extract fan at the rear. In this tech article we will go over all the steps needed to replace your radiator. I would say ~125-150% of the push/pull fan speed if you are using top of the line fans.I believe a square shroud would cool better with a single amazing push fan vs two mediocre ones in push/pull. Even though they are so similar I now think that they are still too different to compare directly. 30-40% on Push vs 85%+ on Push/Pull. outside the chassis. I’ll post the results later in a couple of months once I’m finished with my (hopeful) new Hackintosh build. I was debating (as I’m a reseller for Koolance), weather or not to purchase the Koolance HX-360XC product or the Coolgate CG-360G2. So when a manufacturer complains to me that our testing is unfair because their radiator is designed for performance with only set of fans I’m confused. Now this may make a few people unhappy who didn’t approach their radiator design with this in mind, but this is the logical conclusion from the information that we have. Testing push vs pull vs push/pull. Mophie 5200 mAh Dual USB Power Bank - Cobalt - $4.99, [Amazon.ca] I'm thinking a thicker radiator with more internal fin surface area, and larger coolant volume would be better than running two fans simultaneously. Push/Pull still comes in at 85%+, and the highest Push radiator is only at 70%. Adding on 50mm of fans means that’s a total of 80mm. (Terms of Use, Privacy Policy, Manage Consent Do Not Sell My Data), Ideally you want the same fans on both sides of the rad, running in sync at the same speeds. For that reason we’ll be replacing Martin’s data on Push with our own shortly . Set that aside. Just pull this push pin out right here. If you’re building a system then it’s worth making push/pull work even if it means getting a slimmer radiator. Working at the right side of the radiator push it back slightly and remove the 10mm fastener that hold the radiator to the condenser. We have shown how two of the most popular radiator sizes (120 and 140mm), … ie. Using a floor jack, lift under the vehicle at its specified jacking points until the … I know you mentioned that it’s hard enough to put just one of these bad boys in your CaseLabs PC Case, but I’m going to put TWO of them in. Or do I need to change which fans are connected to which headers? If you were to buy an additional three EK Vardar fans (the new AP15) to run push and pull they would cost $18 each, then the total would be $106, which is $1 cheaper than the Alphacool UT60. Slide it out. Greatly appreciated !!! For a fan at 1850RPM reducing noise by 3dB is equivalent to lowering the RPM to about 1600RPM. Sometimes installing a new radiator might mean that you have to adjust the pipework before fitting. These numbers therefore are not precisely comparable but they are close enough for these purposes given the obvious and large differences in performance. Also as you have mentioned and so have the same people have suggested, running them at lower rpm to achieve the same as result as a single fan run at a higher rpm helps with the noise level. Comparing at 1850RPM and 1GPM flow we have a true apples to apples (the only flow rate tested with push fans): Here we can see, that a “good” radiator in push can in fact out perform a “bad” radiator in push/pull. With the radiator mounted in the front, I was unable to get all 8 of the mounting screws into the push fans. Then once they're in place, line the top fans up with the radiator, pulling air through (blowing air up), and screw those in with more long screws. Although the test setups were similar we found very different levels of power dissipation once we started to include push data in our own testing. Once we pick up on the fenders, there’ll be another push pin right here. DESPITE what Martin’s tests results were when it came to “sandwiching,” my config will be set up like this: 25mm Fan/65mm Rad/25mm Fan/65mm Rad/25mm Fan = 205mm total width (sandwiching 3 fans together side by side by side and using 2 thick wide-finned rads in-between). You’ll see there are two distinct groups – the Push/Pull radiators from 76% up, and the push only group from 40-50%. Be careful of the radiator. Martin tested with a fixed pump power at approximately 1.5GPM while we calibrated (in these results) to 1.5GPM fixed flow rate. The original article remains below unmolested: After we published the 2015 Radiator Round Up data, there was some pushback from quite a few different manufacturers claiming our use of “Push/Pull” fans was “unfair” and it favored thicker radiators. So let’s compare 1300RPM Push/Pull data vs 1800RPM Push data – here the 1300RPM Push/Pull fans should clearly be quieter than the 1800RPM push data, so how do they perform? We will update with our own “push only” numbers when we have some which should give a far more accurate comparison! Just slide that clip off. I then used 8 long screws to screw fans through the chassis and into the radiator. Set that aside. GOOLOO 2000A Peak SuperSafe Car Jump Starter, [Seneca College] As a result of your thorough testing I’m going to go with the Coolgate CG-360G2. – the additional fan Increases the total thickness of the most popular radiator sizes 120... Push or pull Types no one has statistics on the front i.e to use in.. 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A push/pull setup a lot system then it ’ s worth making push/pull work even if it means a!